http://www.tinkersgardens.com/default.asp Tinkers Gardens Forum en-us Copyright 2004-2010Tinkers Gardens Forum - All Rights Reserved. 3/12/2010 5:56:36 AM 20 http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485Here is the update........ Monday was my first Dr. appointment. I was really lucky, I didn't have a GP in the system so I went with the one they assigned to me. He is an Indian man about my age, with a sense of humor and is very supportive. After my examination we went to his office to go over various reports one of which was my EEG. It was not read for a few days after I got home from the hospital. He went online axcessed my files and read aloud "ABNORMAL, UNDIAGNOSIBLE!" and I of course began laughing hysterically. He then explained that it really ment nothing and wanted to know what I thought was so funny. I just looked him in the eye and told him that, the test was probably right and I'm getting back to normal. Then he got the joke. He asked what I missed the most so far and I had to say Coke, and he told me when my sugar is between 70 and 100 to go ahead and have a small glass with my lunch, that I should still be able to enjoy it now and then. I like the fact that he is somewhat liberal, and believes I should still indulge as long as I don't over do it. I am doing well, I only need a 24 hour dose of LANTUS insulin at night before my snack and the pills, my sugar has been good otherwise. My main concern now is my vision, I have always been near sighted. Since the incident my distance vision has actually seemed to improve, but I cannot read anything including my computer screen without a pair of reading glasses.I asked the Dr. about it and was told it may just be a reaction to the siezure medication, but that it may also return to normal. He also told me to wait at least another 2 to 3 weeks before going to see an eye Dr. I don't mind using the reading glasses so much but I have a problem walking around with them on, and get dizzy when I do so they are on and off all day long. It was 65 here today, I spent about an hour outside cleaning up the beds some, I still get tired fast but Spring is near! I may go steelhead fishing tomorr http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489Put like that the ones with the highest bud counts of course, we always want more flowers per scape. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489Chris, your reasoning is fine. There are other ways of choosing which are also fine. Becky and Lotsalilys may I please gently nudge you back to the original question. The seedlings are identical in all respects, including number of branches, timing of bloom, etc. The only way to distinguish them is that they have different bud-counts. Which seedling, with which bud-count from which family would you choose to use as a parent in the next generation? I would create a poll, but it appears I am not allowed. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489Becky, Why have you been hiding that one? It's very nice even with the low bud count and if it reblooms so what!!! John http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489it seems like the 20 x 30 cross produced higher budcounts than would have been expected if you just calculate a simple mean. the mean value would have been 25 buds and this was actually the lowest number from the second cross. the second cross produced a number of babies with budcounts of 27 so it seems like the tendency to take on higher budcounts contributed by the second parent is more pronounced with this cross. does that make sense? maurice--you always make my brain hurt chris http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489Hi Maurice! Hope you're unthawing. We're starting to see brown turf around here. I'll play along. Hard to imagine 10 identical seedlings from any cross. I agree with John that branching and bud placement should be a consideration along with the bud count. I'll also add that the length of bloom time, color in the garden, that you get is important. I have a seedling that sports 30 buds per scape, butit blooms out in a month's time because there are 2-3 buds open at a time on the scapes. A clump of it would look pretty impressive, but only for a short while. Rebloom is possible here in my zone, and that would be one reason why I would select a lower bud count. Here is a seedling HEAVENLY CROWN X SHERRY LANE CARR that was putting out instant reblooms scapes. If you count the buds on the initial scape, there's maybe 18? But this plant put up three sets of scapes before giving up for the season. And here's a pic of the face Not a lot of bells and whistles on this bloom other than the big edge. It's sibs also displayed some rebloom and nicely branched scapes, but this is the only one that had some pie crust on it. At any rate, it's one of my keepers. I've crossed everybody and their brother to it because I'd like to have more continuous color in my garden. Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489The ones with the better branching, even if the bud counts were lower. Why, well the budcount will probably improve. I would stay away from the ones that are heavily top branched, they tend to be "Bouquet bloomers" like this.......... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Lotsalilys/seedlings% 202008/DSCN0218.jpg While there is nothing really wrong with that scape (24 buds) I would rather see a scape like this (this was the first scape for this seedling!)......... I have noticed that branching does not improve as much as budcounts. If a seedling tends to be top branched the bud count will improve, but the branching may not. I'm thinking it would also be a good idea to keep a sib or 2 as insurance. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13489I am trying to learn what methods are being used when seedlings are chosen to be used as parents in a cross, and I have a hypothetical question: One cultivar has a bud-count of 40, one has a bud-count of 30 and one has a bud-count of 20. The 20 bud-count cultivar is used as the pod parent and the 40 and 30 bud count plants are the pollen parents. Cross 1: 20 bud count x 40 bud count produces 10 seedlings. Their bud counts are 30, 28, 27, 26, 25, 25, 24, 23, 22, and 20. Cross 2: 20 bud count x 30 bud count also produces 10 seedlings. Their bud counts are 29, 28, 28, 27, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, and 25. Only one seedling may be chosen to be used as a parent for the next generation. Bud count is the only difference between the seedlings, otherwise they are identical. Which seedling would you choose and why? http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13486that were dried at the end of last season. They were not refrigerated. You can just plant them as you would any other seed (at about twice their depth). If there aren't a lot, a sunny windowsill is fine, otherwise you'd need artificial lighting. If some have seed dormancy they may take several weeks or months to germinate. Unfortunately the only way to know if they do is to start them. You can avoid that with stratification, which makes them all germinate within three weeks or so. This means putting them in damp vermiculite or sand or some other media in plastic baggies in the fridge for about four to six weeks before planting. Some people just re-hydrate them in water, drain, and then put in the baggies in the fridge, or just put them in a baggie on damp kitchen paper towel. Whichever method you use they should be damp but not wet during refrigeration. Dry seeds do not respond to refrigeration, they must be re-hydrated. I don't recommend soaking in water for prolonged periods of time, it may actually impede germination. Sue http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13486Daylily Seeds: put them in the "fridge" for 12 weeks, then I'd soak them in water for about 1 week. Do they have names? If so, keep apart. Then plant them outside, should be mid to late May. Plant about 1/2 inch deep, keep watered not letting them dry out. Good luck. If you get 50% germination pat yourself on the back. Theo http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13488 Year:Height:Diameter:Season:Fragrance:Scape:Fertility: 19882'6''6''EarlyBranching: Bud Count: Pod: Yes (5)Pollen: Yes (14) Habit:Rebloom:Extended Bloom:Nocturnal Bloom:Form:Form Description:Stout Silver Medal: Dormantextsp 4.8 sp 4.8 Color/Descript:Parentage: Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a005e' Invalid use of Null: 'Replace' /subs/results/inc.colordesc.asp, line 3 I'm checking for kids. I'm getting this. The other 15 that I checked worked fine. Thanks, Darrell http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13487Kind of a long story but I hope someone can send me in theright direction. I have worked for a landscaper for many years and have taken care of the common daylilies. Only within the last couple of years have I discovered the wide and wonderful world that is out there with new varieties. Becauseof the terrible economy, I have been cut down to part time for the last two years and my husband lost his job of over 33 years whenhisfactory closed and moved to Mexico. We had started getting some hybrid daylilies as we could afford them before that happened and were planning on adding to them with the plan of selling them in our retirement. The last few years have been very difficult with losing our employment and then we had record rains which flooded our 21 acres twice last year. About 90% was under water for weeks. The majority of our collection was rotted or swept away by the flood waters. I am now searching for low cost plants or seeds to get us back in the garden again. I am interested in maybe 2 fans each of many varieties to try this again. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. We are in southwest Michigan if anyone is nearby, we can come help you dig or dig ourselves when the time comes. Or if anyone has some work that needs to be done that we can barter for plants that would be great too. If you have any suggestions that could help me in my search, I will greatly appreciate it. I am enjoying this site that I discovered and am learning alot. Thank you in advance for your knowledge. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13480the LA is the lily auction. you can find it here--beware! lots of fun and much enabling await you! http://www.daylily.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi chris (my auctions have already closed but there is not shortage of auctions that are ongoing) http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13486Lot of stuff and opinons how to start right here at Tinkers. I start thousands of seeds annually and other than using a good professional seed germinating mix in trays Idon't do too much special. Some just plant outdoors directly others start seeds in stater trays. If you have just a few hard to come by crosses the elaborite things some persons do may be justified. But seeds from dormant crosses will germinate more reliably when planted after a period of refrigeration. Just use the search above and guess what words will find it for you. There is much. Good Luck http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13486You should find some help here... http://mydaylilies.com/frequently-asked-questions-about-dayl ilies/hybridizing http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13480I am new to this. Where is LA? Thank you. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13486I have been given some daylily seeds that were dried at the end of last season. They were not refrigerated. Can anyone tell me if and how I can start these indoors to get a start to plant outside this summer? Thank you. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13483Yes James, I thought the board thing was a great idea. I need something like that for my big long crescent shaped beds. I was AMAZED that the worker trimmed the roots. I never do that. I also don't try and recycle the potting soil. I just mix the potting soil right into the bed I'm planting in. Looked to me like they were making a pile of potting soil to recycle. Doesn't that stuff lose it's nutrients after a while? And if you looked at the times these videos were taken, it was right before Florida got hit with snow and freezing. I bet they all turned to mush. Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485glad to hear you are on an upward track. you might want to consider an online weight loss program--i joined ediets and it was really helpful. they have a lot of different diets to choose from--and there is probably one that would be good for a diabetic diet. i really hope you can get off the insulin soon! best of luck in all of it! chris http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485John, Tho you may not feel so lucky at this time, I think you are. You have been given a warning to take better care of yourself. Following the prescribed medications and the advice from the medical care people in your life you will get stronger, have full recovery from the stroke and live a long productive life. Yes, there are some challenges to get there, losing weight is a toughie, but watching your diet because of the diabetes will be a motivator. Remember you have an angel that is watching over you. Be well and stronger soon. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485John,Consider Ginny lifted up! Will keep you and Mark close to my heart as well. Do wish Makr Best of Luck on the training! He is going to find it a very uplifting profession. Not easy work, but well done it will be something he can take pride in and in himself in return. A little pride in self is a good thing.Keep watching that weight issue and no short cuts on the insulin!!Really glad that you are feeling so much better and that you and your family always seem to rise above life's little storms.Praise be to God!Loving hugs,Rebecca http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485John,That is wonderful news. Am so happy for you and your family. Spring is right around the corner and I hope that its arrival finds you doing even better. Will also lift up Mark and Ginny in prayer. May God bless all of your family and may you continue in your recovery. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485I am home, I am expected to have a very good recovery from the stroke, and if you were to see me you probably wouldn't know I had one. The sizeures are under control now as well. They say with some weight loss and if I watch my diet I will probably be able to come off the insulin eventually. I feel as well as expected, Mark starts welding school Friday, GOD IS GREAT, and life is GOOD!!! Thanks for your prayers, if you have time throw out a few for Ginny, she has had a rough week. JOhn http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13483Thanks for the heads up, Becky. I really enjoyed watching these two and some of the others that were on the side of the screen under daylilies. I liked how the worker squatted on a board while planting a row and then flipped the board over when doing the next row. It said he could plant 1000 in a day and that included setting out labels. Also was happy to see that he trimmed the tops. He also trimmed the roots which I never do. When I didn't trim the tops of my own, they were so leggy, they looked terrible and I thought they would die back to the ground. Wasn't able to figure out how he was going to weed these beds which were about 11 feet wide. He sure has a lot of seedling beds. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13483Thanks Becky,I will check it out. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485John,I will echo what Donald has said and will lift you and Mary up to the Lord as well, maybe even wave ya round a bit so He sees ya! Keep the Faith and the Faith will keep you!Love, the Lord's and mine,Rebecca http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485JohnSorry to hear about your recent stroke, and diabetes diagnosis.Please follow your Doctors advise and diet recommendations.These could both become very serious health issues.I will include you and Mark to my list of people I pray for during my daily holy hour."Lord look upon John and Mark with the eyes of Your mercy, may Your hand rest upon them, may Your life-giving power flow into every cell of their bodies and into the depths of their soils, cleansing, purifying, restoring them to wholeness and strength for service in your Kingdom. Amen"Blessings to youDonald http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485john--i pray for a speedy and complete recovery for you--i am also very glad you learned of your diabetes--not glad you have it but glad you know about it now. and i pray for strength and comfort for mark, so he can be a help to himself and to you at this time. relieved to know that the episode was a mild one. please do everything possible to take care of yourself and heal quickly and completely. chris http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485Hi John, I am sorry to hear you are having health problems.I will include you and Mark in my prayers. Best wishes,Boyd http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13485Hi Folks, I just wanted to let you know that Thursday night I suffered a stroke. As my Dr. puts it, it was a small one, if there really is such a thing. I'm still having mild aftershocks, where I lose some of the motor skills in my left hand, and cannot speak clearly. I have also been told I am Diabetic. I do feel like I am doing well now and I'm looking forward to a new lifestyle. The good news is my heart and cholesteral aere good.Now I could use the prayers, but please include Mark. He has been doing well but is really stressed out worrying about me. CHeers, JOhn http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13476Probably kinda late here, but think you have mroe snow and possibly even more coming. I learned the hard way to wait until sprign here and the foliage alldry and then remove it. Looks liek heck now especially as the semi and evrtgreens grow, turn to mush, grow again only to repeat the process, but if you let them dry til it warm again and most treat of frost all over, then if you walk by the dead foliage wil pul off real easy and clean up a snap. Well nto a snap, but sure easier dealign with dry dead foliage than musy mess. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13484I have a cubit. It is still under construction. It has some forums in it, and I am building more each day as I learn computer terminolgy and how to work the buttons. Major acomplishment for me. Right now access to Ella's Garden cubit is only accessible through cubit's.org ,( it in beta mode for another week yet)which isby invitation only. If you woudl liek an invitation please pm me and I wil giv eyou my email addy. Send me an email at I wil send you the invitationlinks back. Each invitation i s individually generated. Sorry no generic one at the moment. In my cubit I have a place called Here's My Card Directory. Brand new in it's infancy. And you cna actually read it. Almost totaly error free. It is a palce to place an ad and for any folsk visiting nto onyl my cubit, but cubit.org to come and view and click on. There is a charge to use the ad unless you part of my Tinker Family. This plac e ha s given me, friendship, advice, seeds, plants , love and most of all a home when I got kicked out to disney and didn't have a place. If I can create an forum to help some of my most favorite Daylily people thathere that I hold in high respect, please let me know. Your class acts and professional in yoru businesses and I woudl be honore d to have yoru name s poste for folsk to see in my new cubit website. If you woud like, any of you with websites that sell Daylilies, seeds, have gardens you want folsk to come too, you can send me the infromation I need and place a free here's my card ad. I also have a place at EG under Group Buys that is called Vendor Introduction only. Ther eif you have enough Daylilies or maybe a massiv e amount of seed you want to sell, you cna post a short introduction, where when folks start looking for vendors for products they cna fid and maybe us e your product. Luv ya all! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13483I watched his video clips when I went to his site to place an order. Made me feel as if I were right there "talking" with him. I sent him an e-mail telling him how much I enjoyed the clips...he replied that more were to come. Judy D. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13477[QUOTE=tinker]I saved about 20 or so varieties of Daylilies. I lost most but not all of my favorite breeders. [/QUOTE] Donald, If you would post a list of what you would like to replace, if I have what you need, I will gladly share. Judy Duthu (still stuck in hurricane alley) http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13477MissBeckyIt is so nice to hear from you, it's been so long. We have been having the coldest winter since 1983, Burrrr. No I don't have long johns. I like cold weather. However when It got down into the teens a few weeks ago I could have used some.Yes I hope the problems with my feet are resolved early this spring. I am having major gardening withdrawals. It will be a while before my garden resembles it's previous glory, before Hurricane Rita and Ike. But in time I will get it there. I have a lot of work ahead to get my soil the way I want it. I am in the process of collecting leaves, manure, cardboard, paper and mulch to start building some good healthy, and rich soil again. It's been a while since I cooked a nice Lasagna.... It will just take a little time and lots of work.I hope to find time to build a new greenhouse this summer. I had to build a temporary greenhouse to protect my tropical sI saved about 20 or so varieties of Daylilies. I lost most but not all of my favorite breeders. I hope to get my daylily beds ready for transplanting next fall. I will be making a list and checking it twice.Since I moved here, I have not had any problem with rust . Best regards... Tink http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13477My face has been burried in taxes and tax forms since the end of 09. Sorry for the delayed response. Praise Jesus you're on the path to recovery Tink!I hope Marie is doing well. Your house looks so nice..........AND DRY!!!!! I have to say a big Na Na because you got snowed on Poor thing, you probably don't even own apair of long johns I am soooo excited that you're going to be able to start gardening again. I would be ELATED to help you get a daylily patch started. We'll infect you with the daylily bug all over again, just like catching chicken pox twice LOL! What's your wish list Donald? Aren't you a roundiefan? We can round up some roundie's for you. I've got all my seeds planted and am looking at sprouts. Hubbyhooked up a timer to my lights so they're cutting onat 5amand off at 9pm. Waiting for the fungus gnats to start any day now. Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13483Let me preface this by stating I'm not a big YouTube fan (or twitter or facebook.....I feel so UN-hip :o). Anywhooo, the other day my boss had posted a video of his toddler on YouTube and so I went there to check it out. While I was poking around on YouTube I found Dan Hansen had a couple video segments posted showing how he planted out all his seedlings in the fall 09 Here's a link http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=daylily+hansen&a mp;search_type=&aq=o Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13482Does anyone have experience with solar fountains? I would like to install a fountain feature in my "I have a dream" garden, but there is no electricity out at that location. Solar seems like the logical solution rather than trenching in an electric line. Appreciate your recommendations, Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478Thanks for your reply Steve! I think itmakes a lot of senseto think of DL as deciduous or non-deciduous, as you and Sue point out. JudyAnn--I agree that there seems to be little point in registering foliage habit since it is so dependent on growing conditions. Dan Hansen has posted a video on YouTube talking about these very things. At some point he talks about foliage habit vs. hardiness. That is really the thing I am most concerned about when I purchase a DL. Will it grow well in my area? And I agree with you--I've come to really appreciate the "clean start" too. It's a lot easier to pull away the brown foliage than to clip away mushy leftovers. Here's a link for those who haven't seen this yet andmay be interested. Just click around--there are 2 parts. If for some reason it doesn't open to the right page, just search for Dan Hansen daylilies and you should find it easily. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLkykXPt2qE http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13481Just one day left, quite a bargain to be had. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13453Elaine, The fertile pollen would have to be killed. Freezing will not kill pollen so heat would probably be best. Fertile pollen from a diploid when placed on a tetraploid stigma will grow pollen tubes down into the ovary and fertilize the ovules. A pod will start to develop but usually aborts within 7 to 10 days.Rarely a pod will mature and have firm black seeds which may not sprout.Even more rarelyone or two seeds might sprout but they may be triploids. The same situation will occur if fertile tetraploid pollen is placed on a diploid stigma. There are sterile dips, 'Enchanter's Spell' is pollen sterile as is 'Exotic Echo'; there are others but those two come immediately to mind. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13481I have listed one fan of HANNAH MARIE (Bell'09) on the Lily Auction with a starting bid of $0.99. User name on the Lily Auction is DAYLPP. Please take a look here http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13480hi folks--just a heads up if you are looking for late or very late crosses--i have some posted on the LA. a lot of them are seedling crosses--the seedlings may not look all that exciting--remember, though, i am the habit nazi. there are some late or VL named crosses too. my user name is clumboy--same as here. check it out if you are interested. thanks! chris http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13057Hi everyone, I wanted to tell all of you, that my wife and I are setting up to move. We are moving to a place that's warm all the time. Love you all, Jaz! I'll let you know when it happens!!!! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478I love the "clean start" of dormants in the spring. Thanks for posting those photos, Sue. Your bottom photo is what the seedling above looks like, but usually I can find the little green new growth just peaking out. One wonders what the point of registration of foliage is, being that it is different in different zones. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478These are the definitions from the AHS Registration Guidelines: "Evergreen (ev.) These daylilies retain their foliage throughout the year. In the north, these plants over winter as a mound of frozen pale green foliage. Evergreens may resume growth during a mid-winter thaw in mild climates. Semi-evergreen ( sev.) The foliage of these daylilies dies back nearly to the ground in very cold climates. Some green will be seen near the base. Generally, semi-evergreens wait until spring to resume growth. Dormant (dor.) These daylilies lose their foliage completely before or shortly after frost and over winter with pointed foliage buds, usually just beneath the soil surface. Dormants will resume growth in spring." The following image shows the look that many people use to determine a dormant, because there are shorter outer leaves on the emerging new shoots, like bud scales (note the "dormant" is supposed to regrow from "buds"): This is what this cultivar looks like in November here, no green foliage at all. So this is a pretty good example of what most people would consider a "dormant". Only problem - it is from further south of me and is registered as an Evergreen. If you want to test your plants for foliage habit, I would do it in a milder climate rather than a colder one. The colder it gets in winter, the more likely a daylily is to look "dormant". Where I am they are all technically "dormant" because they aren't growing (because in daylily circles we don't use the word dormant properly, we really mean deciduous). Most daylily foliage is flat and brown here in the winter, irrespective of registered foliage habit, especially if there is little or no snow. Sue http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478Somewhere, we have recorded on this forum some information on dormants and their characteristics. The dormants have a little green tip that usually hides just under the dead foliage, or just under the surface of the ground. Usually you can see just the tip. What I've noticed this year is that it is more than a tip, and its tip is frost bitten. I'm mighty happy to see that little tip on the dormants, especially HEAVENLY ANGEL ICE, which I wasn't sure that it had survived being transplanted to Oklahoma. But it has the little green tip right where it should be. So does GIRLY GIRL. Others havea longer tip than I'm used to seeing. Semi-evergreens always look a mess through winter here. Evergreens stay nice and green until we get our slam bam winter blast sometime between January 1st -- usually a bit later, and up to February 15th. Late December up until we get that winter blast, it is easy to identify the untouched evergreens and the messed up semi-evergreens. This year was different. We had deep early cold and the garden is a completely different zone this winter! I'm totally clueless except for the dormants, and I sure won't venture a guess. I wasn't out there noting foliage, but was waiting for the period when it is easily apparent. Didn't happen that way this year, though. Winter jumped the gun! So I'm waiting until next year. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478My 2 cents is this: They should either be dormants or non-dormants. I was out in the garden this weekend pulling the last of the leaves off the iris and daylilies as the yard hadn't been completely cleaned and of course the leaves that remained found themselves a home in the iris and daylily beds due to the foliage still hanging in there. What I notices was that there are several daylilies with no noticable green on them (dormants) and the rest, despite the snow and crappy temps, have green fans (non-dormants). How I would pick which ones are semis and evers I don't know. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478Z. in wandering through the garden, I'm finding that things aren't as usual this year. One seedling which I had considered registering this winter until the foliage stumped me, I had always considered dormant. This year it looks semi-evergreen in spite of our frigid winter. What happened? I need to ask what it is doing for Ed in Texas, because his concern when I sent it to him was that it was dormant, and hefelt it would be too warm there. Evergreens look like semi-evergreens. Very few dormants look dormant and the ones that do make you wonder if they have expired! I'd really like to register my three-layered instant rebloomer, but the entire clump is so dormant I wonder if I'll ever see it again! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13478Funny thing about semi-evg is that they can be more or less persistent depending on the zone they are being grown in. In some cases this may also apply to dormants and this is due to there being mixed foliage habits in the lineage.Z-man, as to your second set of images, I can see them being registered as Dormants, that is how I would have classified them. I would venture to say that if you were to research the lineage of these specimens that you would find one or more plants that are evergreen in each variety.Just my 5¢ worth.Rebecca