http://www.tinkersgardens.com/default.asp Tinkers Gardens Forum en-us Copyright 2004-2009Tinkers Gardens Forum - All Rights Reserved. 11/7/2009 7:22:23 AM 20 http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440Chris--thank you so much for sharing!! Ido! have some TJO seedlings. Never thought about putting them with Singing in the Sunshine.This was only the second year for SIS here. What a greatcross that would be! I love your polychrome too!! I should have payed more attention toscape to fan ratioall along. I took this shot of Broadway Jewel precisely because I so admire the balance this plant has when at full clump. It's a wonderful sight during bloom season! I should print it and carry it with me when I'm looking at seedlings. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440Chris, why have I never noticed this? Thank you so much for explaining your viewpoint to me. Now I have something else to look at and to note! Yes, I agree that it would be an unhappy looking plant that was all bottom and no top! Maybe mine are too crowded to have noticed this? I'm so wanting to have daylilies 3' apart! Today I went through some old film and paper pictures, tossing those that are no longer here. I'm trying to resist going through the trash now! Those photos sure did look sweet where thedaylilies didn't cover the garden in mass! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440juday ann--i just like to see a fairly high number of scapes in a given clump. for tets, the (my) ideal is one scape per fan. thats easily do-able with tets, it occurs fairly commonly. since a lot of tets increase slowly, it is a way to get a nice amount of bloom on a given plant. with dips its a little bit different. there ARE dips that will put a scape on every fan (MARIETTA MOMENTO does it sometimes) but for the most part you get lots of smaller fans and not as many scapes. for me--a good look is one scape for three fans. if the fans are bigger--more tet like--then i like to see one scape for every two- or every one if its possible.if they are exceptionally grassy--then 1 scape to 4 or 5--i don't getdown on my hands and knees and scrutinize,just do a sort of rough count on these. sometimes it takes a couple years to evaluate this trait completely--you can't really see what's going to happen until you get something at or close to clump size.how this appears is also highly dependent on thebud count. a higher budcount and pretty, wide branchingwill mean that fewer scapes can look as balanced as many more scapeson a plant with alower budcount. its really just looking and knowing what your eye likes to see--i prefer a plant that is fairly balanced--with a ratio of 1:1 in terms of flower "mass" to leaf "mass" at peak bloom. most plants look like this already, so its not that hard--the trick is to become aware of plants that DON'T look like that.(or only look like that for 48 hours).a lot depends on the size of the fan, and the leaves. what i don't like are dips that have 20 or 30 little fans in a huge clump with one scape--don't care how nice the scape is. the look is terribly unbalanced--as i am sure anyone would agree. a plant with a beautiful scape and that kind of ratio might be useful as a bridge, but not in and of itself. also--some crappy spindly leaves with some gargantuan huge scape thats the width of your wri http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Calling Z! Wish you would weigh in here buddy! What do you think of these dips? I know you have a whole field of your own nice babies, but what of those ruffles? Please don't eat the daylilies! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Yummy!Do you eat them? Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Yummy! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440Love the polychrome on the left. Polychromes just ad a depth of color that is hard to beat. Your "scape to fan ratio" is an interesting viewpoint. I've never even considered it. Can you give us more of your thoughts and observations on this? I'd like to watch for this trait, too, if I understand what I'm watching for! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13444Oh thank you for that reminder, luv! Let's notforget the Bennett beauties!! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440love the yellow--what a lovely green throat. don't you have some kids from THE JURYS OUT , or TJO itself? i would make that cross. you might not get a real whoop de do flower in the first generation, but you will get lateness, and lovely budcount and branching. i have also gotten some nice "almost" cascades from first generation crosses of TJO X LILTING BELLE, and the color of TJO will let go--not completely, but you can wind up with a nice polychrome, so a cross with this clean yellow and green throat should give you something nice to work with that is late. the main thing you will see is a beautiful scape and budcount--TJO very reliably passes that on. i would freeze pollen from your pink baby and try it with rebloomers that are earlier next year. my main concern for this one is the scape to fan ratio (my term--not meant to be high falutin'--just descriptive). that is something that i am trying very hard to select for--its not as easy with dips--you can'ttypically get a scape on every fan, but i like for the plant to be a balanced mix of fans and scapes. here are two seedlings from TJO X LILTING BELLE--you can't see the scapes--trust me, they were nice--this is just to show you the form i got from the cross. as you can see the color let go to some extent, got a big old midrib, but the blooms were a very nice size--much larger than TJO, not as big as LB. height on the scapes was also good--probably about 30" or so--taller than i would have expected. i think these began flowering near the middle of the late season, and continued into the very late. chris http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13444Rose Mary is really pretty, Judy Ann!!Let's notforget the Bennett beauties!! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13297&a mp;KW=bennett http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13298&a mp;KW=bennett http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440It's amazing to me how much the flower seemed to morph as the weather got cooler. I had forgotten how recurved it was when the weather was still nice and warm. Plus--where is that faint halo?? These are absolutely all from the same plant!! It's the only thing that's been blooming despite the fact that everybody else had equal access to all the August rain. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440Thanks for the input Chris. The only thing about the red, (which is actually a deep pink), is that it isn't a rebloomer. The peachdoes rebloom (the immediate variety) and when crossed with Give Me 8 produced unremarkable blooms, slightly better budcount,but with rebloom. So I'mhoping that trait came from the seedling because Give Me 8 doesn't rebloom for me. Since I wasn't paying much attention to this plant, I'm not sure how many scapesit put up the first time. It's a good sizedclump--probably 15 fans or so, but I just don't remember how many scapes at all. The flower wasn't unique, but I loved its substance.I'll definitely be keeping records next year, because if I'm not mistaken this is actually its3rd bloom cycle. I'm still on the hunt for a suitor-- matchmakingisgreat fun! Here's a face shot from 9/25 that shows the nice green throat: And for fun, here's a pretty one that was blooming the same day. Ned Robert's Singin in the Sunshine. It put up just this one rebloom scape, and was so pretty all during September!! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13436I heard you can do that with grits too. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13436Do you know what happens when you add water to dry instant potatoes? If it happens inside a vole, it won't be pretty for the rodent. Elaine http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13444A picture is worth a thousand words, huh Ron? What concerns me is that withso much ofthe breeding focus on tets, and on converting diploids to tets, who is to carry on with the work of these fancy smanchy dips? It was 17 months ago (can't believe it was that long ago!) when Bob had that near fatal heart attack, and there were real concerns that he would recover and be able tocontinue his work. Their situation is such that his seedlings leave the nursery even before registration. Some offered on the website look to be 09 bloomers. Without the volunteer work of an older church member, they would have had to close the nursery. Its when someone comes along like this that you just wish there was some way you could lift their troubles away and say, "Full speed ahead!" As far as dips vs tets, all you have to do is look at the parentage of the very round full form tets and within a generation or two back, you'll see converted dips. It was the converted dips that gave that leap to tetraploid breeding, which seemed to be stuckwith less than full form. Its a lot easier to get UF's in the seedling bed than it is to get full forms. I'm not talking about science or genetics. Just personal experience. Once you have a taste of Ellison ruffles, it's hard to look away. Tom Wilson was getting some of that look, and Bob Ellison was using some of his cultivars in the beginning. Bob didn't have TOMMY BRYAN, and I sent him some. I offered to send John Shooter some, but he declined because he is of the opinion that some Wilson cultivars are rotters. Well, after I promised these fans, I did experience some rot problems with TOMMY BRYAN. But I'm always concerned that it was my culture or something I had done, so I'm not attaching that label to TOMMY BRYAN. I sent TOMMY BRYAN to Bob just prior to his heart attack, and I haven't had the courage to ask if it survived through that period. Another Wilson that has MARIETTA MOMENTO-type su http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13441Links:Blooming BulbRoyal ColorsJohn Scheeper's AmaryllisThese are not in any particular order and there are other mail order sources, but these are the (perhaps) top three. Blooming Bulbs are smaller and cheaper, but very nice bulbs, Scheeper's have excellent pricing and the quality can not be beat. I am still waiting on my Royal Colors order to get here, but word is they are very good, though somewhat expensive; but they do have some things not offered elsewhere.Have fun looking thorough these sites. Here's another one, just for fun: Amaryllis Bulb Company, pricing is rather high, qualoty is outstanding and customer service is excellent. I didn't order from them this year but got a very nice variety last season, very large bulb and the right one!Gotta run!Rebecca http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13444Ten years ago I was sure that the development of new diploids would be over by now in favor of the 'improved' TETS. But after seeing ELLISON's Introductions I see I was wrong. Looking at the pictures I believe it would be very difficult for a TET to compete with his DIP's in ruffling and roundness. Do you agree? What advantage do TET's offer over DIP's? Why have TET's not kept up with ELLISON's DIP's? Is he just ahead of the game, or is there some genetic reason? Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13436Elaine, It would be my luck that the vole would eat them and then go find water and return with all his brothers ready for a feast. Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13438How about INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE, VAMPIRE LESTAT, Vamire Bite, and MONSTER MAGIC. Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13441I have several, mostly from the box stores but more doubles than any others. For some reason the stores seem to have gone back to two or three older varieties, nothing interesting. I think I have a Scheepers catalog, but could you post links for your favorite sources? Thanks. Elaine http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13436If you want a non-toxic vole bait and can figure out a way to keep it dry in the garden, consider putting out instant mashed potatoes. The idea is that the rodent eats it and then goes looking for water. I haven't tried it enough to be sure how well it works, but it does make sense. Elaine http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13438There are some "Monster"s out there, too. I don't remember the exact names but you can always search the database. Probably some Ghosts or Spooks as well,plus Moon (Moonlit Masquerade?) andMidnight. Elaine http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Keep us posted on your Ellison dips, John! Yes, they are WOW! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442I don't know Judy Ann, I've seen some "feathered" flowers and don't really care for them. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Wow is the only word I could use to describe them. I am seriously thinking about buying a couple of the less expensive ones. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Ron, I did plant some tet seeds today. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Peggy, I think it was his flowers and dear wife Patthat kept him alive through such difficult times. He said this year's seedlings were exceptional. I can't imagine them being better than what he is showing! Pat is right. She says he is called the "King of Ruffles". Needless to say, it was Bob's work on top of seeing my own seedlings that converted me to diploids! Today I finished planting seeds for next year. I'm two months late, so don't expect any blooms next year from these. Health issues had stalled my work this fall, too, but things are looking up. It's been years since I planted so many, and I've really not figured out my space issues. In fact, I don't have room indoors for all of these, so these will be some tough little babies growing up in a semi-outdoor environment. We've got a warm up in the weather, so I'm hoping the 70 degree days this week will help germination. I'm so happy that Robert Ellison is still able to continue his hybridizing. Much of his work is purchased by tetraploid breeders for conversion, so whether we will ever see them as diploids in the daylily market is http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443 Thanks for posting that Judy Ann! I didn't realize anyone was working on such ruffled dips. He's got some great ones! Toothy dips could be next?! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439I'd love to have a chance to grow those seeds. Thanks for sponsoring another Fan Club. Larry http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Judy Ann, Just when you thought it was time to giveup on Tets and stick to diploids they changed the game. Well I guess that is what keeps us young. Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442That's pretty as can be John. What I meant was I wonder when or ifwe'll see the sculpting begin to ruffle, like the crested midrib ruffling. Can you picture that in your mind's eye? Dan's sure got some pretty intros, and I like the deepness of his sculpting, which really gives more than a skeleton look. It is getting to the point now that I'm seeing starbursts in the sculpting. Where it extends from the eye, it can be really pretty. First time I can say that I like it. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Ok Judy Ann, this is a Dan Hansen intro, but I got the name wrong and have to find out what it is, I'll ask Curt! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Lotsalilys/curt%20han sons/DSCN7859.jpg Is that enough edge? It always opens well at Curts too! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440the red is really nice--terrific scape and budcount. i would think you will get a nice clear color out of that cross too. and the shape of the peach sdlg will blend nicely with the scape of this baby. whether you get a keeper from that cross will just depend on how the genes shake out. how many scapes did this baby put up on its first bloom cycle? http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13443Oh look what I just found! Robert Ellison and his famously ruffled diploids are back! http://www.ellisondaylilies.com/gallery.htm After a very hard year in 2008 with the most disasterous health issues one could survive, it is so good to see the Ellison diploids are still coming along. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Edit! I wonder how long it will be before someone introduces ruffled sculpting? Now that would completely win me over! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Well now I'm starting to like them! Look what you've done Becky and John! And Dan! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442And his prices are amazing! Very affordable collection price. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442OMG John, I had to go look at the Ladybug website after I read your post. Dan has some pretty awesome sculpting going on. Here's his GREAT RIFT VALLEY a Fall 09 intro This is SCARFACE also a Fall 09 intro Where have I been? I think I've been shoveling Way WAY too much horse manure. As my uncle would say GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY! Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Precisely my sentiments, Judy. Sculpting hasn't rocked my boat either. At least not yet. There is something for everyone! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439Miss Becky, RADICAL is a winner. I love it, but I will let someone else have the pleasure of working with it. Ron http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442I hope I don't get any hate mail over this but I don't really care for sculpting. I dunno, makes me think the flower is anorexic. Looks too skeletal or something. I really have not seen a sculpted bloom that would make me part with my $$. Now teeth? That's a whole 'nuther ball game. I go gah-gah ove a strong toothy edge. And I know some folks just detest teeth. That's what makes the daylily such a great flower. There is something for everyone! http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439Awesome, Miss Becky, your "Radical" is just awesome! If I lived further north, I would jump in this one, but alas.. too dormant for my climate. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439Judy Ann, I was hybridizing with this bloom from the standpoint of a margined red/bitone. That's why I crossed it to ASHWOOD RINGS OF SATURN, HAPPY APACHE, ALTERED STATE, KEY TO MY HEART and the like. I guess I wasn't thinking about it in terms of edge/eye. The red on the bloom really isn't an eye at all. This seedling looks very similar to it's parentRichard Norris' BELIEF IN VEIN (07) pic from his website below - but without the veining and the midribs. BIV is unknown X MOMENTUM The rest of the seedlings from this cross are rather muddy looking to my eye and I believe it comes from the MOMENTUM breeding. If you look at the very first pic in this thread, the marooon colored seedling in the background is a sib to "Radical" Like the duck, duck goose seedlings I had from other MOMEMTUM crosses that I made.Most came out muddy with afew vibrant reds in the mix.This "Radical" seedling really stands out as the goose in this flock of seedlingsas it is very stark red/yellow combo. Becky http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439Becky, you need to get Paul Owens MAR THE STAR and cross it with your awesomest seedling. I love the yummy edge you've got going. Now just round out the form. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13439Looks like it has a lot of potential for passing on that edge. I'd like to be included. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Becky, Curt told me that Dan Hansen is going to be introducing a nce red with heavy sculpting in 2010. I think Keith Miner is also introducing a purple with nice sculpting. I fell in love with sculpting last year when I saw a bunch of Richards seedlings. John http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440It is very pretty. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442Becky I just love Daylily Polkville Princess! I haven't talked to Paul since the season ended to hear how his year went. I'm glad to see he is introducing this diploid. It really reminded me of my "See You After Midnight" -- got the pre-registration name reservation papers back yesterday. Looking at the parentage POLKVILLE PRINCESS is out of AUTUMN BLUSH, hybridized by our Central Oklahoma late club member Wilma Bryant! How nice! And if it wasn't so hard to get a tet babywith the form of MAR THE STAR, I wouldn't be working with dips! Whata beauty! Second generation from Paul Owen. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440You know, I've never noticed that faint halo in the garden. Funny how pictures help us to see the details better. Thanks for the suggestion Chris! I don't have that one, but it will be a fun assignment to look for something this winter to put with it. I crossed this polymerous (about 70%) bloomer on it. I've always liked the flower, but the budcount is stinky!!! It's a polychrome and BIG, so maybe I'll get a late pink polymerous one. I can hope, can't I? Edit--I see I've got the red x here. I've had to get a new computer and haven't finished transferring files. So I'll try to link to an earlier thread. http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8846&am p;am p;KW=luvdlilies And I need to double check my list, but I think I crossed this to it as well: http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12549&a mp;KW=luvdlilies http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13442I just got an email from Paul that his website had been updated with 2010 Spring Intros. Here's the link to Slightly Different Nursery One of his new intros is called LIGHTNIN IN MY BLOOMERS. I just can't get over the surface sculpting on this bloom. It looks incredible!!! Talk about unique! Becky