Posted: October 19 2009 at 6:46pm | IP Logged

October 16th is the day my state Ag inspector showed up to my garden this year, a day late and two frosts short.  I honestly thought it was too late in the season for them to come out and inspect.  Some budget/staff cuts in the state Ag department closed a bunch of offices and shuffled people around.  I looked at my Ag inspection from 2008 and the inspector was also out in October, but a week earlier.  In the years prior, the Ag inspector came out when the garden was actively growing.

Makes no sense to me to inspect a garden that is going dormant for the season.  The guy was trying to analyze damaged foliage that had been beaten down by the frosts.  Duh?

Just wondering how your state ag departments operate.  If you have a state inspected garden, what month does your Ag inspector show up?  Thanks for your input

Becky

Posted: October 20 2009 at 6:04pm | IP Logged

my guy usually shows up in july.  part of the reason is the fact that he inspects a couple other large nurseries near to me at that time so he is in the area.  he also really likes coming here when the flowers are blooming.  this year he was later than usual.  like your state, indiana has made some job cuts so their workload has increased.  there is also what i understand an issue of timing--some inspections have to be made at certain times in the life cycles of certain bugs, like gypsy moths, and depending on their workload, that can affect the timing.  my inspector told me he does all his big nurseries first, and the smaller "mom and pops"  after that.  i just happen to fall in between because of where i am.  in indiana you only have to be inspected if you sell stock that over winters in the ground.  l don't know if thats true in michigan or not, but if the nursery inspectors have to do all the greenhouses and wholesalers in your state, that is a lot of inspecting==and the greenhouses would probably have to be done first because they close down.  it does seem kind of silly to inspect you that late in the year, but its probably just a function of their workload.  my inspector always treats the session like more of a time to help me take good care of my plants, rather than looking for problems.  he would find the problems either way, but his emphasis is on making me a better grower, rather than catching me with naughty bugs.   

i happened to be at a large retail nursery one day when he was there and i had a chance to watch how he inspects a large nursery.  i would have lost my mind and wandered off to the nearest bar after the first 15 minutes!  i can't imagine how long it took him to complete that inspection.  the way the nursery is laid out made it very difficult for him to keep track of what he had already checked and what was still left to do.  he said it was a relatively easy inspection though, because he could walk along and easily see the plants--unlike tree nurseries that sometimes don't mow between their rows so he has to wade through brambles and poison ivy for acres to get the job done.  he is just as careful when he comes here because he knows i pay the same up front fee as the big guys and he wants me to get my money's worth (there is an add on fee figured by the acre so the big guys do pay more than i do overall). 

anyway==thats my answer.  hope its helpful.  chris

Posted: October 20 2009 at 7:09pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the response Chris.  My whole understanding of the ag inspection process is to make sure that diseased or infested plants don't make it into commerce.  It makes perfect sense to me to inspect the plants in the middle of July, or even a month or two later.  Makes no sense to me to inspect plants that have already gone dormant.  By October my garden sales are done.  Whatever stock I've sold is already planted and growing in someone else's garden.  If the plants that I sold had been diseased or infested with some kind of bug, the damage would already have been done.  Like shutting the barn door after the cows got out and trampled Ron's garden

The fee for the inspection is now $50.  I try and pick my Ag inspector's brains while he's here but I can't seem to get clear answers and directions.  Like at this point, I still have no clue how to go about getting a phyto to ship plants internationally.  The inspector had suggested that I run my plants up to Detroit Metro Airport, but don't go up there at peak travel times.  Exactly where at Detroit Metro? 

My questions  for this inspection session centered around what happens if my wonderful neighbor decides allow the local farmer to plant some kind of crop in his front yard like soy beans or wheat or whatever... and the farmer ends up drifting herbicide spray onto my garden.  Seems there's something called the right to farm act that I should read up on.  And if there's an incident, I have to call the Lansing office right away and check weather reports and they'll come out and take soil and plant samples and then they determine if the farmer ruined my plants and levy fines....but I'm out the plants.  Yeah, works for me.

$50 to inspect frost bitten plants to make sure nothing diseased reaches Michigan's plant market.  Such a deal.  The guy actually found one plant at the very back of the garden that had yellow speckles on it  and said this could be rust.  I know for a fact that my garden hasn't experienced rust this year.  I'm like pick a leaf off and shake it on your paper.  Here's a tissue, try and wipe it.  Like one plant out of thousands in the garden would have rust.  Give me a freaking break!  I've lived through two rust outbreaks.  There's no such thing as one plant with rust.  Still he's standing there telling me I should cut off all the foliage and bag it and dispose of it.    Surrrreeee I will.  Yeah, I'll get right on that bubba. 

Becky

Posted: October 20 2009 at 7:25pm | IP Logged

Sheeesh, Becky!  What a deal.  Your inspector sounds like mine, who had never seen rust.  The only time I've seen them in all the years I've been licensed, is when I called them to come out and tell me what to do because I had my first outbreak of rust.  Well, all the inspectors for the state showed up!  I guess that counted for that many years, 'cause no one has ever come back.  They bagged up some foliage and sent it off to OSU, and I never even heard a peep back from them.  Of course, I shut down until I had been a whole year without rust, because I didn't know if it could winter over here.  But that wasn't imposed upon me.  When I called and asked their thoughts on re-entering the market, they said there was no longer a ban on shipping rusty plants!  Well, heaven help us if the Ag Department won't!

Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut! 

Chris, your inspector sounds like a neat fellow to have come out.

Posted: October 21 2009 at 7:06am | IP Logged

Becky, that chemical drift issue is of major concern for you I would think.  First off, do we know what chemicals will actually kill daylilies?  I don't.  Then could you meet with the neighbor and kindly request those chemicals not be used with the estimate of damages presented so he can understand the liability?

I have an elderly friend, club member, and also vineyard owner.  To manage the small vineyard in an area where lots of birds and critters lived, he and the other owners invested in a huge bird/critter-proof cage built over the entire vineyard, and had a chicken coop built inside to keep the ground pest free.  But the "cage" wasn't drift proof.  After years of wine production, the entire vineyard was lost to a 2-4D drift.  I never heard if there was a liability settlement.  I can certainly understand your concerns.

Chris, your inspector sounds like a very interesting person to know!  I think you hit the nail on the head, that especially my nursery does not compare with the thousands of acres of wheat, fruit and vegetable production that calls for routine inspections.  A report of fire ants will summon them quickly though!  I think that is going to be Oklahoma's next problem, especially for areas along I-35.

Posted: October 21 2009 at 11:50am | IP Logged

I have the neighbor from .  To begin with, he has a pit bull that comes over and trounces through my plants.  I explained and explained and explained to him that his dog cannot come in my garden.  I told him about my entire hybridizing process.  How I have to wait two years to see first bloom.  Begged him to keep his dog in his own yard.  The dog was not only coming and harrassing me when I went to work outside, it was running out to the road to attack bicyclers and joggers.  The dog wouldn't mind.  Wouldn't come when called.  His solution was to put a shock collar thing on it that zaps the dog in the neck.  I feel sorry for the dog, but that zapper collar is the only thing that's kept it away from me and my garden.

Secondly, the man refuses to respect where the property boundaries are.  There are metal pipes as well as surveyor stakes at all four corners of our six acres.  The guy was continuously mowing over on to our property with this big tractor.    I told him to stop mowing our property.  He insisted it was his property.  I told him there's a pole at the front out by the road, and out across the creek at the back that marks where the property line is between our two parcels.  He tells me, any hick can go out and pound a pole into the ground, only surveyor stakes were valid markings.  So I tromped his butt out across the creek and showed him exactly where the surveryor stake was right directly next to the large post that had been sunk into the ground   So this summer, even though the idiot now knows where the boundary line is, he continued to mow right up against my garden EVEN WHEN I HAD A GARDEN FULL OF VISITORS. 

Thirdly, the man has grandchildren who ride dirt bikes and four wheelers all around his property and ours.  I've told him repeatedly to keep the children off our property.  I've told him repeatedly I do not appreciate the noise.  After one horrendous evening of listening to three of them zipping all around and aggravating the  out of my poor hubby who was dog tired, I downloaded the noise ordinance from our township's website and handed it to him personally.  $500 fine is the price tag on that crapola.  I told him he had exactly two minutes to shut the bikes off.

And now, the guy is talking to the local farmer about planting crops in his long narrow front yard.  He already lets this farmer plant the back of his property.  His parcel is 9 acres.  The house sits a good 300' back off the road.  To the east side of his property there are big power tower metal things that the farmer plants around.  This year's crop was soybeans, and he usually rotates to corn. 

Now if you can imagine over by the boundary line side, I just created my fourth crescent shaped bed to complete my "I have a dream" garden, plus I expanded the corner of a bed on that side and loaded it up with 08 seedlings. The entire perimeter of my retail garden is planted with seedlings.  It is my seedlings that are the closest to the boundary line, within 10' to 20'.  My retail plants are within 20-30'   Putting a value on retail plants is relatively simple.  How do you put a value on seedlings?

Becky

Posted: October 21 2009 at 12:54pm | IP Logged

That's easy Becky.  Every single fan is a unique registration, introduced at a minimum of a dozen fans, X $400!  Type that up and stick it in his face!

Posted: October 22 2009 at 3:24pm | IP Logged

Ken, is it possible for you to ship fire ants to someone?  I'm assuming it would be, unless you dipped the plants in some kind of pesticide?? 

One of the hoops I'm supposed to jump through in order to be able to ship internationally is to have my soil tested for soy bean nematodes.  Since there hasn't been any farming done on this property for the last decade, I'm sure my soil would pass the test at this point.  However if my wonderful neighbor has soy bean crops planted right next to my daylilies, that would then become an issue.  I have no clue how nematodes operate.

Incidentally my Ag inspector informed me last year (or the year before) that rust was now considered just a nuisance.  Not reason to shut down a garden.  My concern is what if this laxidazical (spelling?) approach to the organism will eventually allow it to mutate? 

As a general rule of thumb I offer all garden visitors something to drink.  I'm not much of a cookie baker, but I can if necessary.  I don't think my Ag inspector's attitude towards me and my garden is due to my hospitality.  I think it's like Chris says, my garden isn't a priority. 

I can understand there being delays with inspections due to the downsizing and shuffling around going on in the Ag Department.  But again, it makes absolutely no sense to me to inspect plants that are going dormant.  My peak bloom, my peak selling time for visitors is mid July.  That's when it would be best to inspect all the plants and make sure there are no diseases or pests.

The one thing I did learn from the inspection is...I have the right to call the inspector out one time without charge to consult.  I think I'll be exercising that right next summer, and I'll be sure and bake/buy some cookies 

Becky

Posted: October 24 2009 at 11:42am | IP Logged

As far as I know Canada is concerned about Japanese beetles and soybean nematodes from Michigan.  There was a webpage I found someplace that listed off by state what the pest concerns were. 

The soil inspection thing was explained to me once.  I'm supposed to (as in me - myself) take soil samples from all four corners of my garden and several places in the middle and put it all in a jar and shake it up together.  Then that soil gets sent into the lab for testing.  I think the fee is minimal - like under $50.  Then they can certify that my garden is nematode free.  I don't believe the test has to be repeated on an annual basis.  My understanding was the test was a one time deal.

As for having the plant shipments inspected themselves, that's where the hassle factor comes in.  I would have to take the plants up to the airport (after I find the right place to go) and have them inspected by an Ag agent and pay a fee. 

I don't necessarily have Canadian customers beating down my door, but it would be nice to figure out this whole process.  There are lots of sellers on the LA that offer international shipping.

As for the rust situation, the only way I'm going to get it in my garden is by bringing in new plants.  Even then, the new plants won't show visible signs of rust (in my experience) till mid to late August.  Meaning, the rust lays dormant inside the foliage and doesn't erupt with orange pustules till late in the season.  Then once it does erupt, it spreads everywhere within a matter of days. 

This spring I only received a handful of new plants.  The ones that came from known rust zones were stripped down and soaked in fungicide before planting.  I planted them all in the same place too at the very front of the garden so I could keep an eye on them.  I thought about giving them another dose of fungicide in August and never got around to it.  Turns out it wasn't necessary, they never broke out in rust.   When the Ag inspector came, I showed him all the new plants and he agreed they were all healthy.  That's why it was so hillarious that he was scrutinizing a seedling at the back corner of the garden as a possible rust suspect. 

I have become a bit paranoid after getting rust.  I'm constantly looking at foliage.  When I'm washing and trimming plants, I'm really double checking.  One time I accidentally shipped a worm to a lady.  Now I spend a lot of time picking through all the roots making sure I've got all the worms off.  Pulling off all that hairy stuff gives my hand a cramp.  Hubby rigged up this washing table for me.  Has a wooden frame with like chicken wire in the middle.  I can just spread out all the plants on the table and blast them with the hose.  Tons easier working on the plants at waist level.

Becky

Posted: October 28 2009 at 10:13am | IP Logged

Miss Becky! : )     Logn time no see.    Let's hope puter  works today  and  doesn't disconnect or eat my posts.

On the nematodes.  Here  I copying  what I wrote  down for another  market grower  that  having issue s with  nematodes.   It  might help you or  at least give you a better understanding of  how they work.     You a  mulcher,  so  that a big  poitn in yoru favor  for   keepign them away from your property.

"If nematodes are such a problem in yoru fields you need to start takign sections and building up your nematophagous fungi. These are predatory fungi.

When I took the advanced mycology cours e at the university we studied all of these types of fungi.

Some to specifically look at are

Predatory fungi:

Acaulopage, Stylopage, Gamsylella, Dactylellina, Arthrobotrys, Drechslerella, Nematoctonus

Then for Endoparastici fungi look at

Haptoglossa, Myzocytium, Nematophthora, Catenaria, Harposporium, Drechmeria, Verticillium, Hirsutella

And to get rid of the eggs and the cyst parasites look at

Rhopalmoyes,Pochonia chlamydosporia, Paecilomyces lilacinus

To see if you ven have any predatory fungi in your soil get ya a petri dish. Take a small amount of cornmeal and dilute it and add a small pinch of your soil to it.

I would get a bunch of perti dishes. You cna soemtiems find at hobby shops in 12 to a package and take sample s fom difernt areas. Then again too ya might see if your local county extention wil take the sampels to the college labs they us e and do the testign in pathology for ya for free. Don't hurt to ask. Save ya anywhere s from 15 to 18 bucks.

After ya got yoru dish together let it inculabte at room temp for a coupel of weeks. Saprotropic nematodes present in the soil wil crawl over the top of the surface of your dish. They feed on the bacteria. But to see if you have any of the predatory fungi in yoru soil they wil develop structure s for trappign the nematodes like you wil see in these pictures.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=nemat ophagous...

You wil need a powerful microscope to see the conidia. Then ya cna gently scoop the condia out and put it on some fresh cornmeal argar and it wil grow even more.

Now the one thing I wondered is if you took some soil sample s ha d them test it to see if you even have any predatory fungi in your soil, sinc e they easily feed on cornmeal, if it might not be worth it them to springle a bunch of corn meal in the fields or beds or whatever it is you have.

The best way to get ya abunch of nematophagus fungi is to have soil that is rich in organic matter. The more organic matter you cna add the better you will be.

Maybe get ya some rich organic matter and have it teste d for the presenc e of the fungi and if it there, sloly cutivayte that type of organic matter into yoru soil section at a time.

Your are a probably to big to do all at once, but if ya get it starte din an area, you cna always transfer soem of the benefical fungi to other areas, feed it and le tit grow and continue, plus some of it depending upon yoru setup will colonize in different area s from water run off.

Just soem ideas and suggestions "

Now  being worried  about  drift.    This a true story.   There  was  a  flower  grower  that had   some big bucks invested  in their stock and inventory.   They had  a neighbor  that  was  kind alike yours  and  with no thought or concern for neighbor sprayed.   The drift  took out the  growers   crops big time.    It went  to a court battle.    It looke d liek the  grower  was  goign tolose  out  until they had  a witness stand up for  them.    This  witness was  a horticulural proffessor who wa s also part of of Dept of  Ag.     This p[roffessor wa s able to tell the court about  how  it  was  the drif t that ha d caused  the problem,  not only  with  scientific  knowldge,  but  also becaus e the  hort professor  ha d been out to the growers  site  lending a helping hand.      The grower  won.   Big  bucks   for  all the los e of   crops and  business  that  would have taken place  in between. 

Go to your localcollege  and  go to the Hort  department  and  find  somebody who is  a  a horticulturalist professor  who also on  co-op extention services.   Get him to come out and look at your place.  It  don't  cost nothign from co-op services.      Then you have somebody  specifically with  pathology and hort , entomolgy background.    You can explain your problems  to them  and  they  wil come out and   offer suggestions to  combat  nextdoor  legally and   maybe othe r ways  to increase  your production and sales  you might not be aware of.   You also have  a witness, too  if thinsg get really ba d with next door.  

I have  major problems  with nextdoor myself and as  soon as  I get a chance,  gonan have  co-op extention out here  cuz  Ihave warne d nextdoor enough.   They selling the place  and hopefulyl that willend the problems.  We'll see, but not gonan take a chanc e on it.

next door  he  down to two, from 22  but the  female  pregnant again  after  I told him oif he didnt seperate them  she would get knocked up again.  He  also has  turkeys and chickens ther e too and  in the  entire tiem he has  had  all thes e animals,  he  hasn't  worme d them, given them shots  ( they just got  rabbi shot )  after  I  threatene d to call law,  but  he  ha s nevr  cleane d up after  thes e animals and birds.   We  have had  raina dn rain adn mroe rain and flooding and   he  has  all that land  and has  the animals  cage d up against  my fence.  Ususing part of my fence  to try and contain them.    The animals  up on a what ya  callit upgrade and  with the rains   all that fecal matter  is  vroken down and runs   down off  notonyl into the front of his property , but on to mine too.    I can't plant  veggi crops  ther e until I have the stateinspectors out and  soil samples  and evrythign else ,   so  Idon't have toworry abotu  the soil contaminatign the  food  with  somethign like ecoli.   

Everythign I grow now is  off the ground and  in potculture,  but  I shoudl be able to us e my land  and   some things  just don't  grow good in pots.  Why should I have tosuffer  because he  to lazy  tobe a responsible   animal owner.    I not  gonna have it  and it gonan be  a big battle.  A person shouldn't have to  be afraid  to put their hands  in their  own soil .  

Your ag inspectors   generally only come out  onc e a year,  but  the co-op extention offices  which are free wil come out   as  much a s needed  when ya need  them.  They also know alot abotu the local  laws  of  yoru area,  more so  in depth than  ag inspectors. 

Posted: October 28 2009 at 11:28am | IP Logged

I would like to weigh in on the nematode discussion sofar as to what I have concluded from my internet research.

I have a HUGE root knot nematode problem here, but thankfully, it does not seem to affect daylilies. The thing is, there are several species of destructive nematodes and root-knot is only one.  There are beneficial nematodes, too, but the destructive nematodes seems to multiply much faster than the beneficial ones. The overwhelming problem is once you have nematodes, you will forever have them. You can only hope to outwit them, or at least temporarily reduce their numbers unless you have a nursery license and can purchase nematicides. The ordinary gardener, such as me, can not.

I have spent hours on the internet searching for solutions to the problem of controlling nematode populations in my soil . A few solutions for control were offered but most are not within my realm. Can't use nematicides or fumigants because I do not have a license. Mass solarization is not do-able because I can't let my soil lay bare for a year after tilling with a tractor. Solarizing with clear plastic isn't a viable option either, because the dirt does not heat up high enough to kill anything further down than about 4 inches. Nematodes still live after this "treatment".  I can't mass plant with nematode-capturing cover crops either.

I have read that nematodes travel about 3 feet a year. But, again, once you have them, they are yours forever. I happen to love my tomatoes, beans, peas, etc. but now I have to grow them in pots. Raised beds do not prevent nematode infestation, as raised beds still touch earth. I love my brugmansias, but they, too, must be grown in pots. I have to severely restrict what I grow in the ground with both vegetables and ornamentals.

As Ella said, add lots and lots of organics to your soil. Not only does this help a plant fight off a nematode infestation, nematodes do not multiply quickly in a good, rich organic soil. BUT, even though rich, organic soils slow them down, they will eventuall build their numbers back up. You MUST plant nematode-resistant vegetables and ornamentals, and then rotate those every year if you are to ever have any hope of reducing the numbers of nematodes in your soil..

Much research has been done on using French and African marigolds as a biocontrol of root-knot nematodes (and some of the other nematodes, too). It seems the roots of French and African marigolds contain chemicals that kill nematodes. One drawback, however, is that the benefits are not realized until the following year after first planting. But that's okay...got to start somewhere! Also, the treatment frequently needs to be repeated with marigolds and vegetables grown in alternate years. This I can handle, too! If the marigold research is correct, then it is great news, because I can certainly plant French and African marigolds and lots of them. I will be using the "marigold treatment" this coming year. If it doesn't work at reducing my nematode population, at least I will have lots of pretty annual flowers!

Posted: October 29 2009 at 10:57am | IP Logged

Judy...     Not   just any of the   marigolds  works.   Ther e  certain  specific cultivars  that do.    I knwo ther e is one company and think  it  possibly  Seeds  of  Change   that sells the   marigold seeds   that  are  specifically  for   workign against nematodes.     Remmebr seeign them  in  the catalog  when was lookign for soem heirloom seed  to buy.  

Posted: October 29 2009 at 12:11pm | IP Logged

Nematodes are common in sandy, moist soils but they are generally more of a problem on former cropland that has been re-utilized for residential use. Neither situation applies to my land.

It was suggested that I may have introduced nematodes to my soil via purchased vegetable transplants and ornamentals from places like Walmart, Lowes, and Home Depot. I have bought lots of annuals and vegetables from those places in the past.

I found a valuable (to me) site. It certainly opened my eyes as to what I can expect from annuals I may wish to add to my garden.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/pp/notes/Ornamental/nematodes/ odin31_nematodes.htm

Never-the-less, I will be planting French and African marigolds to test the nematode-killing theory. I am not crazy about marigolds, but if the theory works, I suppose they will become a mainstay annual here.  I really don't do the whole growing from seed thing, except for daylilies, but since I will no longer be buying vegetable transplants or those flats of annuals, I guess I will need to reach back to my childhood memories and learn how to do it like my daddy did.

Posted: October 30 2009 at 3:41pm | IP Logged

This is a very interesting subject, since eventually I hope to sell some of my daylilies. Reading what you all been posting about state ag inspector make me appreciate all the hard work that each and everyone that sell daylily & plants go though. Thanks for the discussion.

My property is organic; I want to keep that way. Some of my neighbors get all bend out of shape if one dandelion appears in the yard; they’re out there spraying all kind of stuff to get rid of it. We have well water here, so that is one of my worry.

Posted: October 31 2009 at 6:38pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the info on nematodes.  I didn't know they were permanent residents in the soil.  We haven't had any food crops here on the property for at least a decade.  I have no idea how soy bean nematodes could survive without a food source. 

Thanks Ella for the co-op suggestion.  There's a co-op office not to far from my home.  I don't know as those farmers will be able to help a daylily grower, but it's worth a shot. 

Sandra, I hope you have a filtration system on your well water.  When we first moved into our home we had well water.  The township didn't bring city water through until three years later.  I was very glad to give up my well water for city water because our well water was rusty and made a mess of the laundry and the plumbing fixtures.  I was constantly scrubbing toilets and sinks and tubs when we had well water.  I was also worried about the chemicals the adjacent farms were using. 

Becky